As Miranda is being treated by Dr. Hildesheim for her influenza, she has a dream about him garbed in a “German helmet” and “carrying a naked infant writhing on the point of his bayonet” (Porter 322). This causes her to panic, thinking her physician is a “Boche, a spy, a Hun” who needs to be “kill[ed]…before he kills” her or somebody else (Porter 322). Do you think that during the war and after the Armistice, those xenophobic feelings were explicitly expressed to people with German backgrounds despite them either being non-combatants or on the side of the Allied forces? In what ways could this behavior affect the livelihoods of Americans with German heritage and German residents during the Influenza of 1918?
Miranda gets to see the end of the Great War, but is still fighting her own battle. As she begins to recover from her bout of the flu, Miranda begins to wonder about whether the better alternative is being alive or dead or her ability to share her exerpience with people who may not understand nor appreciate resembles that of soldiers and nurses’ experiences with the war. Even though Miranda never saw the war nor its horrors up close, do you think her experience with the flu virus warrants this response? Is she valid for feeling this way? What are the differences and similarities between Miranda’s experiences to that of soliders and nurses?
Throughout the story, especially towards the end, Miranda’s has several dreams. One had a ship and a “writhing [terrible]” jungle that “exuded the ichor of death”, another where she Adam where being shot by arrows through the heart but were stuck in a “perpetual [cycle of] death and resurrection, and one that started off in a paradise-like environment that shifted into a hellscape (Porter 311, 317). Do you think that these dreams relate back to Miranda’s feelings about love and death? What exactly do they reveal about Miranda? Narratively, what role do the dreams play?
14 thoughts on “Arden Jones’ Reading Questions for April 12th”
1. Yes, I do believe xenophobic feelings and remarks continued for the coming years towards the Germans. I’m sure research would prove this also as I remember watching a movie about German life after the war and they definitely felt the consequences of the war the most out of any country. I am positive this occurred also because it has happened many times throughout history such as with the holocaust and during colonization of Africa by Europeans. These xenophobic feelings will have a dampening effect on the lives of German Americans as they will be regarded as the enemy and I bet found it hard to get jobs, maintain relationships with friends, and exhibit any support for their home country of Germany.
I liked what you said bringing up the holocaust and the colonization of Africa by Europeans. These events really did develop xenophobic feelings towards the Germans. Another example would be how Americans gathered Asian American people and but them into camps after the attack on Pearl Harbor. It’s interesting but also depressing that as people we tend to blame a whole group of people for something bad when it’s only a select few that commit the act.
3. Narratively, the dreams offer a unique aspect to the work. The dreams are a chance for readers to really understand Miranda because they do connect back to her feelings about love and death. The “perpetual death and resurrection” is how Miranda connects with her personal history and global history and is a window into her perspective on death as an inevitable rider who eventually triumphs over not just everyone in her family, but the entire world. However, the lineage and humanity goes on because it is a cycle of life and death as even though everyone dies, there is constant new life. Horrors like pandemics and war throw off this natural cycle and bring more hopeless feelings because they are a vehicle for death to come sooner even to men like Adam, who is the strong model of man before he has a chance to have children or carry on his legacy in a concrete way. Love is in some ways a distraction for Miranda and Adam; the love in Miranda’s life disappears when the sickness and war she needs a distraction from end. Her dreams act as a vessel for her actual focus on her fears because during the day she is just trying to survive and distract herself with her relationship.
1-That dream was so disturbing! Unfortunately, the German population did suffer during WWI. Instead of summarizing all the various ways – I felt it was easier to put up these links to some online articles that examine anti-German sentiment:
2-The portion of the story where Porter recounts her battle with the flu and subsequent survival is powerfully and beautifully written. I think the experience left her emotionally fragile and it may have been such a horrific thing that she never recovered. She describes being close to death and the pain of losing Adam in a way that makes it clear these were life altering occurrences. I looked up her biography and while Katherine had a long and interesting life, she was married and divorced four times and was unable to have a child, something she had wanted. I think the power behind Pale Horse, Pale Rider lies in the fact it was written from her heart, which seems to have broken when she realized that she lived and Adam had not.
3-I think the dreams are directly related to how Miranda feels about love, life, and death and they reveal the deep and sensitive nature of this talented writer. For me, the dreams enriched the narrative through their wonderful symbolism and her prose was very beautiful. Writing about a near death event cannot be easy and it is clear to me that Porter really reflected on her battle against the influenza, the dreams seem to be the reader’s “way in” to her deeply spiritual experience. I do not know if this is true but her online biography states that when she was discharged from the Denver hospital she was completely bald and when her hair grew back it had turned white:
1. Absolutely. Xenophobic feelings toward Germans was already all-too-common during the war, and I can’t imagine people were all of a sudden okay with anyone who had any German heritage afterward. Of course, it also doesn’t help that WWII wasn’t that far behind, where Germany as a whole was once again the enemy. I imagine anyone discovered to be, in any capacity, German would be treated poorly by others around them. I imagine it’s likely similar to the treatment of Irish people, where they could’ve been turned away from jobs or housing simply because their country was on the “other” side of the war. It’s interesting the shame that Germany still feels to this day about the World Wars. I know this isn’t the one we’re discussing in this class, but when I went there tour guides would apologize for WWII if the topic ever came up. Granted the case is quite different there, but there’s also still a strange attitude about WWI. I can only imagine anyone with German nationality would be made to feel bad and excluded simply because of the country their family was from.
1) I absolutely think that these xenophobic feelings were directed at anyone who had a German background no matter if they were physically fighting in the war or not. As we have seen in history, people of German descent and even the country of Germany have gotten a bad rep many times. I think her dreams just show how disturbing her unconscious mind was during her being sick which then got taken out on the doctor. To answer the second part of your question, these ideologies people have about Germans can for sure affect Americans with German heritage. I feel like a lot more people who are American with other heritages feel some sort of judgment due to their heritages today as well.
1. I think propaganda has a strong effect on individuals till the day they die. People can unlearn and fight against these preconceived notions, but I think these xenophobic messages did a number on the masses at this time. I think there was an aversion to the German people which was expressed through their economic collapse after the war and no other country feeling any empathy to the citizens to help them. This depressing progression gave rise to, eventually, Hitler. Without this stage set, WWII may not have had the fanatic political zeal from the German people backing up their new Chancellor — the underdogs in their eyes. On the homefront, I’m sure German Americans endured scrutiny from their American neighbors, especially if they had family in Germany. Much like in 9/11 where Muslim and Arab Americans had to endure abuses and shame for their beliefs and culture, the German American must have had a similar experience.
Your first question is a really good question because I believe that this still affects American- Germans especially with the history that we have learned throughout the years due to the wars. Though, it today’s world I know that some individuals do still have this hatred but I know that the German has changed to listen more to their own people and their needs. Like many other cultures, such as Hispanic, Arabic cultures do suffer as well from this prejudice that all these cultures act with hatred towards others but that is not the case.
To answer you second answer the flu can be some of the cause for her to act this way that the battle still continues but because her love of her life she feels awful. Since the one being she ever loved passed away.
I believe that all her dreams such as the first dream we have read in the beginning of the story… it is a foreshadow of what will be happening.
1. Yes I absolutely believe that xenophobic feelings continued against the Germans. Followed by WW2 there is actually an entire generation that is known as the silent generation in Germany, because so little has been written to acknowledge them. Any soldier who fought in WW2 or WW1 for Germany struggled to be on the wrong side of history and people were ashamed and not allowed to mourn them or speak of them.
1. Yes, I do believe xenophobic feelings and remarks continued for the coming years towards the Germans. I’m sure research would prove this also as I remember watching a movie about German life after the war and they definitely felt the consequences of the war the most out of any country. I am positive this occurred also because it has happened many times throughout history such as with the holocaust and during colonization of Africa by Europeans. These xenophobic feelings will have a dampening effect on the lives of German Americans as they will be regarded as the enemy and I bet found it hard to get jobs, maintain relationships with friends, and exhibit any support for their home country of Germany.
I liked what you said bringing up the holocaust and the colonization of Africa by Europeans. These events really did develop xenophobic feelings towards the Germans. Another example would be how Americans gathered Asian American people and but them into camps after the attack on Pearl Harbor. It’s interesting but also depressing that as people we tend to blame a whole group of people for something bad when it’s only a select few that commit the act.
3. Narratively, the dreams offer a unique aspect to the work. The dreams are a chance for readers to really understand Miranda because they do connect back to her feelings about love and death. The “perpetual death and resurrection” is how Miranda connects with her personal history and global history and is a window into her perspective on death as an inevitable rider who eventually triumphs over not just everyone in her family, but the entire world. However, the lineage and humanity goes on because it is a cycle of life and death as even though everyone dies, there is constant new life. Horrors like pandemics and war throw off this natural cycle and bring more hopeless feelings because they are a vehicle for death to come sooner even to men like Adam, who is the strong model of man before he has a chance to have children or carry on his legacy in a concrete way. Love is in some ways a distraction for Miranda and Adam; the love in Miranda’s life disappears when the sickness and war she needs a distraction from end. Her dreams act as a vessel for her actual focus on her fears because during the day she is just trying to survive and distract herself with her relationship.
1-That dream was so disturbing! Unfortunately, the German population did suffer during WWI. Instead of summarizing all the various ways – I felt it was easier to put up these links to some online articles that examine anti-German sentiment:
https://www.history.com/news/anti-german-sentiment-wwi
https://reimaginingmigration.org/the-anti-german-sentiment-of-world-war-i/
2-The portion of the story where Porter recounts her battle with the flu and subsequent survival is powerfully and beautifully written. I think the experience left her emotionally fragile and it may have been such a horrific thing that she never recovered. She describes being close to death and the pain of losing Adam in a way that makes it clear these were life altering occurrences. I looked up her biography and while Katherine had a long and interesting life, she was married and divorced four times and was unable to have a child, something she had wanted. I think the power behind Pale Horse, Pale Rider lies in the fact it was written from her heart, which seems to have broken when she realized that she lived and Adam had not.
3-I think the dreams are directly related to how Miranda feels about love, life, and death and they reveal the deep and sensitive nature of this talented writer. For me, the dreams enriched the narrative through their wonderful symbolism and her prose was very beautiful. Writing about a near death event cannot be easy and it is clear to me that Porter really reflected on her battle against the influenza, the dreams seem to be the reader’s “way in” to her deeply spiritual experience. I do not know if this is true but her online biography states that when she was discharged from the Denver hospital she was completely bald and when her hair grew back it had turned white:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Anne_Porter
1. Absolutely. Xenophobic feelings toward Germans was already all-too-common during the war, and I can’t imagine people were all of a sudden okay with anyone who had any German heritage afterward. Of course, it also doesn’t help that WWII wasn’t that far behind, where Germany as a whole was once again the enemy. I imagine anyone discovered to be, in any capacity, German would be treated poorly by others around them. I imagine it’s likely similar to the treatment of Irish people, where they could’ve been turned away from jobs or housing simply because their country was on the “other” side of the war. It’s interesting the shame that Germany still feels to this day about the World Wars. I know this isn’t the one we’re discussing in this class, but when I went there tour guides would apologize for WWII if the topic ever came up. Granted the case is quite different there, but there’s also still a strange attitude about WWI. I can only imagine anyone with German nationality would be made to feel bad and excluded simply because of the country their family was from.
1) I absolutely think that these xenophobic feelings were directed at anyone who had a German background no matter if they were physically fighting in the war or not. As we have seen in history, people of German descent and even the country of Germany have gotten a bad rep many times. I think her dreams just show how disturbing her unconscious mind was during her being sick which then got taken out on the doctor. To answer the second part of your question, these ideologies people have about Germans can for sure affect Americans with German heritage. I feel like a lot more people who are American with other heritages feel some sort of judgment due to their heritages today as well.
1. I think propaganda has a strong effect on individuals till the day they die. People can unlearn and fight against these preconceived notions, but I think these xenophobic messages did a number on the masses at this time. I think there was an aversion to the German people which was expressed through their economic collapse after the war and no other country feeling any empathy to the citizens to help them. This depressing progression gave rise to, eventually, Hitler. Without this stage set, WWII may not have had the fanatic political zeal from the German people backing up their new Chancellor — the underdogs in their eyes. On the homefront, I’m sure German Americans endured scrutiny from their American neighbors, especially if they had family in Germany. Much like in 9/11 where Muslim and Arab Americans had to endure abuses and shame for their beliefs and culture, the German American must have had a similar experience.
Your first question is a really good question because I believe that this still affects American- Germans especially with the history that we have learned throughout the years due to the wars. Though, it today’s world I know that some individuals do still have this hatred but I know that the German has changed to listen more to their own people and their needs. Like many other cultures, such as Hispanic, Arabic cultures do suffer as well from this prejudice that all these cultures act with hatred towards others but that is not the case.
To answer you second answer the flu can be some of the cause for her to act this way that the battle still continues but because her love of her life she feels awful. Since the one being she ever loved passed away.
I believe that all her dreams such as the first dream we have read in the beginning of the story… it is a foreshadow of what will be happening.
1. Yes I absolutely believe that xenophobic feelings continued against the Germans. Followed by WW2 there is actually an entire generation that is known as the silent generation in Germany, because so little has been written to acknowledge them. Any soldier who fought in WW2 or WW1 for Germany struggled to be on the wrong side of history and people were ashamed and not allowed to mourn them or speak of them.